January 18, 2020
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DEBATE: Atheist vs Christian (Richard Dawkins vs Cardinal George Pell)


Good evening Welcome to Q&A [I’m] [tony] [Jones] and answering your questions tonight world Renowned evolutionary biologist and author of the God delusion Richard Dawkins and Wait a minute Hold your applause just for a moment and australia’s most senior Catholic church minh, the Archbishop of Sydney cardinal George pell please welcome a special Okay, Q&A is live from 935 Eastern time and simulcast on newS24 and news radio go to our website to send a question or join? The Twitter conversation using the hashtag on your screen stay tuned for the chance to join Cuando vote You can register on your smartphone or a smart device at the address on the screen? Your dress is quanda dot vote Cuando vote dot TV. I should say our first question tonight comes from Naomi reserve It Easter Australia’s religious leaders invoke the name of God in order to Preach Peace tolerance political Integrity Social and Moral fortitude all obviously positive and worthwhile values My question is in what way is the practice of these values? Dependent on an existing. God is it possible [for] an air feast to be to be a peace-loving? Socially responsible person what your Dawkins let’s start with you Well, obviously the answer to that question is yes, I mean that could hardly be otherwise It is true that Christianity has adopted many of the best values of U of humanity But they don’t belong to Christianity or indeed to any other religion I think [it] would be very sad if it were true that you really didn’t [need] religion in order to be good Because if you think about it what that would mean would be either? that you get your morals and your values from the bible, or the Koran or some other holy book or That you are good only because you’re frightened of God because you don’t want to go to hell Or you do want to go to Heaven? Now as forgetting your morals from the bible. I very sincerely hope nobody does get their morals from the Bible It’s true that you can find the occasional good verse and the sermon on the mount would be it would be one example but it’s lost amid the Awful things that are dotted throughout the old testament and actually throughout the new testament as well because the the idea the fundamental idea of New Testament Christianity which is that geez us is the son of God who [is] Redeeming humanity from original sin the idea that we are born in sin And [the] only way we can be redeemed from sin is through the death of Jesus. I mean, that’s a horrible idea It’s a horrible idea that God this paragon of wisdom and knowledge power Couldn’t think of a better way to forgive us our sins than to come down to Earth in His alter ego as his son and have himself hideously tortured and executed So that he could forgive himself, okay? Let’s get a joint spell on that well Is that there’s quite a few things that might be said? First of all our tradition goes back about 4,000 years so whatever these values are that we’ve taken over we’ve got to go back a little bit of a distance and It’s interesting to look at pagan Rome before there was Christian influence forty percent were slaves Men and women fought one another to the death in [you] [know] this is the circus maximus of the colosseum women Had no rights whatsoever infanticide was practiced regularly the Noble families didn’t want baby girls Christianity changed that not perhaps by itself, but largely and the Christian Story Where Christians when you testament people? There was an evolution in the old testament And there are some awful things there it developed the notion of God was purified as it went through the old testament can I can I just interrupt you just to bring you to the point of the question which [was] really about whether Atheists can lead a good life, and be good people and socially responsible and so on absolutely accept that yeah absolutely. I think it helps to to believe in God because There’s a polish Poet [Milosh] Who says that the opium of the people today is the belief that they won’t be judged by God when they die? Tho those have committed Great prime’s done awful things are going to get away [with] it and That the people who’ve suffered unjustly had terrible lives That’s it. Okay. Let’s move too quickly to our second question it’s from Claire Bonner Religion is precisely often blamed for being the root of war and conflict But what about all the good it has done for our society God sent of religion has been the birthplace of schools universities hospitals and and countless developments in science as [well] Richard if you believe the human drive to seek the truth and to constantly improve ourselves is Merely as a mechanism for survival, then what’s the point? And why should I bother? It’s an astonishing idea to say why should you bother just because we have a scientific understanding of why we’re here We do have a scientific understanding of why we’re here, and we therefore have to make up our own meaning to life we have to Find our own purposes in life which are not derived directly from our scientific history When you say that Christianity has been responsible for a lot of good including science by the way, which is somewhat ironic I think [that] most of the great benefits in humanity such as the abolition of slavery such as the emancipation of women which the cardinal both mentioned both of these have been wrung out of they are Christian history without much support from From Christianity I as an atheist my friends as an as atheists Lead thoroughly worthwhile lives in our opinion because we stand up look the world in the face Face up to the fact that we are not going to last forever We have to make the most of the short time that we have on this planet We have to make this planet as good as we possibly can and try to leave it a better place Than we found it now to some degree you’ve already answered this but there’s a follow-up question I’m going to go to that now It’s from Rebecca Ray For you today is without religion Where is the basis of our values and in time will we perhaps revert back to Darwin’s idea of survival of the fittest? Richard Dawkins you can answer that now bring in Caterpillar I very much hope that we don’t revert to the idea of survival of the fittest in Planning our politics and our values and our way of life. I’ve often said that I’m a passionate Darwinian when it comes to explaining Why we exist it’s undoubtedly the reason why we’re here and why all living things are here But to live our lives in a darwinian way to make up to make a society a Darwinian society That would be a very unpleasant sort of society in which to live it will be a sort of thatcher, right? Society and we want to mean in a way I feel that one of the reasons for learning about Darwinian evolution is as an object lesson in how not To set up our values and our and our social lives George pell well well It’s interesting because I think in the space of about two minutes Richard has said two different things If one of the which is that science can’t tell us why? We’re here, and then in the next minute Trying to say that it does no no. I I said it can tell us why we’re here. I can’t well I simply contradict you in that case. Well what what would, what is [the] reason that science gives? Why we’re here science tells us how things happens? science tells us nothing about Why there was the Big bang? Why there is a transition from inanimate matter to living matter science is silent on We could solve most of the questions in science And it would leave all the problems of life Almost completely untouched why be good there are quite a widely goods a separate question which I also came to why we exist you’re playing with the word why their science is working on the problem of the Antecedent factors that lead to our existence now why in any further sense than that why the sense of purpose is in my opinion? not a meaningful question you cannot ask a question like Why do mountains? Just as though mountains have some kind of purpose what you can say is what are the causal factors that lead to the existence of mountains and the Same with life and the same with the universe now science over the centuries has gradually pieced together Answers to those questions Why in that sense? It’s true that there are still some gaps? But surely cardinal you’re not going to fall for the god of the gaps Trap saying that that religion is going to fill in those gaps which science has so far Not yet answered. No, I’m not going to be diverted at all. I’m happy to come back to that. Yeah We will be coming back to because I know there are questions that relate to some of the bigger issues You’re talking about, but you could respond and then we’ll move on do I know I hope I’ll be allowed to you say, thanks It’s part of being human to ask why we exist Questioning distinguishes us from the animals it’s there to ask Why we’re here, [so] I repeat and this is a common place in science science sir has nothing to say about that as Whatever it might say about mountains. It can’t say what is the purpose of human life and it’s not Maggie thatcher who was in the epitome or the personification of social Darwinism, it’s hitler and Stalin Because it’s the it’s the struggle of a for survival the strong take what they can and the week Give what they must and there’s nothing to restrain them and we’ve seen that in the two great atheist movement of the last predict that is Nice, unbias audience, then go get another way Right next let’s clearly distinguish to that two things here first Atheism had nothing to do with Hitler or Stalin Stalin Stalin was an atheist hitler was not it doesn’t matter what they were with respect to atheism They did their horrible things for entirely different reasons Now you are right when you say that aspects of what Hitler tried to do Could be regarded as arising out of Darwinian natural selection that’s exactly why I said that I despise Darwinian natural selection as a Motto for How we should live I tried to say we [should] not live by Darwinian principles but Darwinian Principles explain, how we got here and why we exist in the scientific sense now cardinal? You said it’s part of human Nature to want to ask the question why in the sense of purpose? It may very well be part of human Nature, but that doesn’t make it a valid question there are all sorts of questions which you can ask What’s funny about that? What is funny [again]? We’d like the audience not to yell out if that we can do that. That’ll be great I’m we’re gonna move on I didn’t finish. I’m sorry okay. We’ll finish your point Okay there are lots of questions pertaining this we will the question why is Not necessarily a question that deserves to be answer there are all sorts of questions that people can ask Like what is the color of Jealousy that’s a silly question exactly, why is a silly question Why is a silly question you can ask what [are] the factors that led to something coming into existence? That’s a sensible question But what is the purpose of the universe is a silly question it it has no meaning Good could I just interpose very briefly briefly? I think it’s a very poignant and real question to ask why is there suffering? We will be asking that question believe it or not. This is Q&A it’s live interactive tonight We’re experimenting with quanta eight a new way for Q&A viewers to share their opinions on the issues We discuss you can go to the quondam. Vote TV website on your smartphone tablet or computer to vote in a very first question and that is Does religious belief make the world a better place does religious belief make the world a better place? We report back later on your views first. Let’s move on to our next question from our for [our] panel it comes from Paul Hanrahan My question is for Richard Dawkins you’re on the record as saying something you can’t prove that God doesn’t that God doesn’t exist and You say you’re agnostic rather than a theistic why do you appear as the champion of atheism around the world while you accept offers to appear as the champion of atheism and Why you so evangelical in the prosecution of your cause isn’t that a touch hypocritical and unscientific? yes, Richard exam bit confused about this because you just referred yourself moment emotes ago as being an atheist and yet with the Archbishop of Canterbury you refer to yourself as an agnostic In the God Delusion, I made a seven-point scale one is I’m totally confident There is a God certainly as I’m totally confident. There is not a god Six is to all intents and purposes. I’m an atheist. I live my life as though There is no, God But any scientist of any sense will not say that they positively can disprove the existence of anything I cannot disprove the existence of the Easter bunny, and so I’m agnostic about the Easter bunny It’s in the same respect that I’m agnostic about about God so what proof by the way would change your mind It’s a very that’s a very difficult and interesting question because um I mean I [used] to think that if somehow You know great big giant? nine hundred foot High Jesus with a voice like Paul ropes and suddenly strode in and said I exist here I am But even that. I actually sometimes wonder whether that well, I think you’re a [loose] [lady] I agree Or can I just put the question to you could could you ever? provide Richard Dawkins with the sort of proof he requires to believe scientific proof of the existence of God no because I think He only accepts proof That is rooted in sense experience in other words he excludes the world of metaphysics a the principle of contradiction and He excludes the possibility of arguments that don’t go against reason, but go Beyond it, but could I could I make one little suggestion as to why? Richard calls himself an atheist because in [one] of his blogs in 2002 He was discussing whether he’s an agnostic or a non theist He said he prefers to use the term atheist got us more explosive. It’s more dynamic You can do you can shake people up whereas if you’re just going around going around saying that you’re an agnostic or a non theist it’s not That these are his own words well, let’s let Richard night. I don’t remember saying that it’s it wouldn’t it wouldn’t totally surprised me it’s a it’s a Tuneless into thousands an ongoing issue. What’s the best way that that there is a problem with the word atheist, but especially in America? I don’t know whether it’s true in Australia. There’s a lovely woman I’m blocking on her name because I’m jet-lagged um she’s Irish American will in any anybody already helped me know quite a few Irish Americans. Oh, sorry Sorry No um anyway, I do apologize apparently daughter getting her name. She’s an actress and she’s got a She did a film on How she escaped from the Roman Catholic church, and it’s a very moving film and at the end? Her mother discovered that she was an atheist and her mother phoned her up and said well I don’t mind you not believing in God, but an atheist Her name’s Julia, Sweeney, so it’s that suddenly come back to me I strongly recommend that now the point is that the word atheist unlike joseph did not believing in God has bad connotations so to some extent people have wished to Depart from that and change the name to non theist or secularist or non-believer? And I waver back and forth as to what’s the best name to use I sometimes call myself an atheist sometimes a non theist and And sometimes just a non-believer George pell can I just come back to you on this question of the existence of God why would God? Randomly decide to provide proof of his existence to a small group of Jews 2,000 years ago and not subsequently provide any proof after that Um well I don’t think there ever been any scientific proof. I don’t believe God does anything randomly Although he might set up He might set up a system. Which works apparently through Route through chance through through random center, but if you want to get [something] if you want something done You’ve got to ask somebody, it’s no good Say my asking and connor everyone in the congregation Will you do something? Normally you go to a busy person because you know they’ll do it and so for some extraordinary reason God chose the jews they weren’t intellectually the equal of either the egyptians or the Intellectual intellectual apparently, how can you know intellectually because you see the fruits of their civilization? Egypt was the great power for thousands of years Before Christianity Persia was a great power [chaldea] The the poor the little Jewish people than they originally Shepherds they were stuck there They still started that’s when these are a reflection of your intellectual capacity is that whether or not you’re a shepherd well No, it’s not but it’s a recognition. It is a reflection of your intellectual development [I’d] like many many people are very very clever and not not highly intellectual but my point is so can I just interrupt are you including jesus in that who obviously was Jewish and was of that was of that community Exactly, so intellectually not up to it Well, that’s that’s nice try Tony the the people in terms of sophistication The Psalms are remarkable in terms of their buildings and that sort of thing they don’t compare with the great was the great powers but Jesus came not as a philosopher to the elite he came to [the] poor and the battlers and For some reason he chose a very difficult but Actually, they are now and intellectually I’ll eat Because over the centuries they’ve been pushed out of every other form of work Clara I mean Jesus. I think is the greatest Some of the son of God, but leaving that aside the greatest man that ever lived So I’ve got a great admiration for the jews, but we don’t need to exaggerate their contribution in their early days alright you’re Watching Q&A remember you can send your web or video questions to our website the dress is on the screen to Find out how to do that a next question is a video comes from Andrew Watson in Blackburn, Victoria question for Richard Dawkins The big Bangers believe that once there was nothing then suddenly poof The universe was created from a big bang if [I] have nothing in the palm of my hand Close my fingers Speak the word bang then Open my fingers again Still I find there is nothing there I? Ask you to explain to us in Layman’s terms How it is that something as enormous as the universe’s came from nothing? Richard Dawkins Well, obviously you’re not a physicist And nor am I and I am delighted to say that during my time in Australia I [shall] be having a number of conversations public conversations with my colleague Lawrence krauss including one in the Sydney Opera house Later [I] think it’s next week And he he’s written a book on exactly that topic of how you can get something from nothing and I shall be Questioning him about that of course it’s counterintuitive You can get something from nothing of course common sense doesn’t allow you to get something from nothing. That’s why it’s interesting It’s got to be interesting in order to give rise to the universe at all Something pretty mysterious had to give rise to the origin of the universe now if you want to replace if you want to replace a physical explanation by an intelligent God that’s an even worse explanations even more difficult explanation what scientists are trying to do is to explain How you can get not just something but the Immense complexity of V of the world of the universe and of life and Science is making a pretty good fist of doing that Life is now completely solved barring the details. That was Darwin’s contribution and Darwin’s successors Physicists are still working on the origin of the cosmos among them is lawrence krauss whom I I should be talking to Next week now It is very mysterious how the universe came into being it’s a deeply mysterious an interesting question and and Canada [draft] is an old question a very old question thomas aquinas in the 13th century Was asking the same question. He said there must have been a time when no physical things existed But something can’t come from nothing that was his view it’s just local seeded liars Something can come from nothing and that’s what physicists are now are now telling us I could give you what you asked me to give you a layman’s interpretation. It would be a very very layman’s interpretation when you have Matter and antimatter and you put them together They cancel each other out and give rise to nothing What lawrence krauss is now suggesting is that if you start with nothing the process can go into reverse? Produce matter and Antimatter the theory is still being worked out. It’s a very difficult theory mathematical theory I’m not qualified to answer the Question, but what I am sure about is that it most certainly is not solved by postulating and intelligence a creative intelligence Who raises even bigger questions of his own existence that certainly is not going to be the answer whatever else is George pell. Thank you But the trouble well there are many troubles with richards Teachings, but a fundamental one is that he dumbs down. God and he soup sup nothin he Continually talks as though. God is some sort of app market figure within space and time now from 450 500 BC [where] with the greek philosophers God is outside space and time God is necessary self-sufficient uncaused Unconditioned that’s the hypothesis you’ve got to wrestle with the second thing is that krauss says nothing about the Big Bang coming out of nothing and the Admittedly he comes clean about six pages from the end of his book and I don’t know where the Richard has read at that far because he gave it a forward What he says is what he what the richard is describing is nothing is a sort of a mixture of particles and perhaps a vacuum with electromagnetic Forces working on it. That’s What krauss is talking about under the heading of nothing and there’s a very good review of this in the New York times? Not a pro religious paper at all Where the cross is absolutely? denied and Demolished although Especially by either his supporters claiming that he says things come out of nothing. He doesn’t say that It’s a quickly responded looking to dispute exactly what what’s meant by nothing, but whatever it is. It’s very very simple. I mean Why is that funny? Well, I think it’s a bit funny to be trying to Define nothing Well can I put that to you as a question is it is it equally? Feasible since you can’t prove the existence of God that the nothing you’re talking about is in fact some creative force If you talk about a God who is a creative? intelligence Then that is something very complicated and very improbable and something that requires explaining in its own, right? The nothing that lawrence krauss is talking about Whether or not it’s what a naive person would conceive as nothing or what a sophisticated Physicist would consider to be nothing it is going to be something much much simpler than a creative intelligence We are struggling We’re all struggling scientists are struggling to explain. How we get the Fantastic order and complexity of the universe out of very simple and therefore easy to understand easy to explain beginnings Lawrence Krauss Calls the Hartley the substrate of his explanation nothing It’s possible to dispute whether nothing is quite the right word, but whatever it is. It is very very Simple and therefore is a worthy premise for an explanation Whereas a [God] a creative intelligence is not a worthy substrate for an explanation Because it is already something very complicated And it’s no good invoking Thomas aquinas and saying that God is defined as outside time and space. That’s just a cop out That’s just an evasion of the responsibility [to] explain That’s just setting out what you want to prove before you’ve even started okay. Let’s move on to a question To a question on evolution for cardinal pelts from Joe blades as a young catholic scientist I’d like to ask the cardinal to Clarify the Roman Catholic Church’s position on evolution and Comment on whether the dichotomy between science and religion is in fact real Well science and religion are two different activities and in the Catholic church You can believe to some extent what you like about evolution I Think Darwin made a great contribution it I remember talking with Julius Kornberg a very distinguished biologists, and he’s worked with ants for years And he said you know he’s managed to change them by changing the [the] conditions But there are a number of things that evolution doesn’t explain Darwin realized that talan was a theist Because he said he couldn’t believe That the Immense cosmos and all the beautiful things in the world came about either by chance or out of necessity he said I have to be ranked as a Theist now. It’s just not true. I excuse me utley not true. It’s on page 92 of his autobiography John have a look So [I] just can I just bring you in a sense to the point of the question do you accept that humans? Evolved from apes. Yeah, probably from the and ethel’s yes, [whether] here, but in the end the source probably Why from the animals what well to who else do would you suggest? Neanderthals were our cousins were not descended from them and we’re both descended from These are these extant cousins Weird while I find a neanderthal today. [if] [they’re] my cousin They’re not extant. They’re extinct exactly that’s my point Your point is that because they’re not it, but because they’re extent they can’t be our cousins I really not much fast That’s a clear Something in the evolutionary story seems to have come before Humans a lot of [people] say it secure can we say this humans you accept that humans involved from non-human? So let me put [this] to you as a question at what point in this evolutionary scale was a soul imparted to the humans from God look a soul isn’t It’s not like putting a spotted gin and tonic yeah, the soul is the principle of Life hmM so whenever there was a Principle of life that could question that could be open to or it was able to communicate Then we had the first human now we believe that the first humans Developed in South Africa, I’m not quite sure how long ago and that all Humans have developed from that Will be no most about that there aren’t remains we know most about that because of the drawings they left on the On balls and caves and that sort of thing No such thing from Neanderthals So we can’t say exactly when there was a first human But we have to say if there are humans there must be have been the first one that might have been equal first But if there is a progression they’ve got to be first So when are you talking about a kind of garden in Eden Scenario with actual Adam and Eve well? What adam and eve terms? What do they mean life and earth? It’s like every man. That’s a beautiful sophisticated and mythological Account it’s not science, but it’s there to tell us two or three things first of all that. God created the world and the universe Secondly that the key to the whole of universe the really significant thing humans and thirdly it’s a very sophisticated Mythology to try to explain the evil and the suffering, but it isn’t a literal truth You shouldn’t see it in any way as being in historical or literal truth it’s certainly not a scientific truth and It’s it’s a religious story told for religious purposes and just just quickly Because the old testament in particular is full of these kind of stories I mean is there a point where you distinguish between metaphor and reality for example moses receiving the ten commandments? Inscribed directly by God on a mountain. I’m not sure that the old testament says that God inscribed the ten commandments But leaving that aside. It’s difficult to know how Exactly that work, but there moses was a great man. There was a great encounter with the divine actually with moses We get the key that britain ables us to come together with the Greeks With reason because moses said whom I tell the egyptians, and he said tell that my name is I am who I am Okay I’m gonna bring Richard Dawkins back in here because we we’ve moved from evolution obviously to the biblical versions of it You’re not well I’m curious to know if if Adam And eve never existed where did original sin come from but I also would like to clarify the point about whether there ever was a first human if that’s a rather difficult and puzzling question because we know [that] the previous species from which we’re Descended is probably homo erectus and before that some sort of australopithecine But there never was a last homo erectus who gave birth to the first homo Sapiens Every creature ever born belonged to the same species as its parents the process of evolution is so gradual that you can never say Aha now suddenly. We have the first human It was always a case of just as slightly different from the previous generation. That’s a scientific point which I think is quite interesting I’m not sure of it has a theological significance except that I think successive. Pope’s have tried to suggest that The soul did indeed get added Rather like gin Tonic at some particular point during evolution at some point in evolution There was no soul, and then later there was one so it is quite an interesting question to ask now we have rather a good fossil record from Africa of the descent of humans from australopithecines to to various species of Homo Perhaps Homo, Habilis perhaps Homo erectus Then archaic homo Sapiens, and then Modern homo Sapiens, and what point did the soul get injected? And what does the idea of original sin mean if Adam and Eve never existed? I’ll just quickly let you respond to that. Well. I mean God wasn’t running around giving injections And if there is no first person women where did this all come from then the soul is a prince evolution there are animals souls dude dude if are all living things have some principle of life the An animal as a principle of life a human has a soul a principle of language is immensely more sophisticated We even have a voice box so that which is one the great miracles So that we can communicate our thoughts to one another rather than just grunting And please we’re not grunting tonight. Let’s move along you can by the way don’t forget You can still vote it quanda vote so quantum dot TV [I] should say on the question does religious belief make the world a better place over 15,000 viewers have already voted and will check before the end of the program for the final results and Question for professor Dawkins and cardinal pell is a video and it comes from here and Dennis in Ferntree gully Victoria My question is for George pell George as a climate-change skeptic You demand a very high standard of evidence to support the hypothesis that global warming has an anthropogenic cause My question is why then do not demand the same standard of evidence for the existence of God? I’m very very happy to answer that first of all I’m not a skeptic about Climate change I grew up in ballarat the weather was always. I was work for years in Melbourne You don’t like the weather in Melbourne wait 20 minutes Think of all the nonsense people like flannery told us. God years of drought here in our car. We’re coping with flood So you know it’s a grouch a nice fire that you’re a skeptic about global warming to climate chill I’m I’m a skeptical of a skeptical about the Human contribution to dangerous climate change, I think that is not established and it is n Sorry is that because you’re skeptical about scientific Consensus it is that partly no no no either by what scientists believe about religion? No got nothing to do with it on the under weather question I go on the evidence When you come to talk about God That [is] not a scientific question the scientists Concede that It is a question that is open. I believe to reason you have to reason about the facts of science Ask whether you believe that the suggestion that you know random selection? Is sufficient and also most evolutionary? Biologists today don’t believe that [don’t] [believe] what they don’t believe in Random so this crude fundamentalist version of random selection that you propose I do not propose it And I strongly deny that that evolution is random selection evolution is non random selection. Oh, no There’s a purpose to others day no Good good. Could you explain what non-random means yes of course I could as my life’s work It’s a hard thing to say but keep it brief There’s random genetic variation and non-random survival and and a non-random reproduction Which is why as the generations go by animals get better at doing what they do that is quintessentially? Non-Random it does not mean there’s a purpose in the sense of a human purpose in the sense of a guiding principle Which is thought up in advance with hindsight you can say [something] like a bird’s wing looks as though It has a purpose a human eye looks as though It has a purpose, but it has come about through the process of non-Random natural selection There is no purpose in the human sense. There’s a kind of pSeudo purpose, but it’s not a purpose in the human sense of conscious Guiding but above all I must stress that Darwinian evolution is a non random process one of the biggest Misunderstandings, I’m sorry to say the cardinals just perpetrated is that there are some is that evolution is a random process it is the opposite of a random process a Brief response to ratification Yes That that’s that is fascinating because most evolutionary biologists today believe [that] the animal world is developing according to patterns which when we starting to know more and more about them and Are you referring to intelligent design no? I’m not I’m leaving that right to one side. Hi. I do believe in intelligent Design I believe if there’s an intelligent designer, [I] believe God is intelligent know that I’m It’s obviously it’s obviously a loaded question, but you believe in intelligent design I will do an intelligent designer it all depends what you mean, I believe God created the world. I’m not entirely sure How it works out? Scientifically, but I I wonder you [know] whether richard believes that the order the patterns we see In nature whether they are real or whether they’re an illusion? I’m gonna leave that question. They are real all right, okay? I’ve [got] that’s a quick answer Let’s go to our next question is a video comes from Matthew Thompson and 21 Victoria I’m an atheist. What do you think will happen when I die and how do you know? George pell will stop if you do you ought to be an authority on this I imagine Well I know from the Christian point of view God loves everybody That every genuine motion towards the truth is emotion towards. God and When the nathe eous dies like everybody else they’ll be judged on the extent to which they have moved towards goodness and truth and beauty But in the Christian view God loves everyone except those who? Turn his back turned their back on him through Evil acts also atheism not an evil act no not in well. No, I don’t most cases. It’s not so many on this lady I guess did to get to the point of the question I suppose I mean he made having a little wager here, but is it possible for an atheist to go to heaven uh well? it’s not my business no, but I love You’re the only authority we have here. Oh, I would tell you certainly yeah certainly And just this on the subject of heaven if we can what is your own? concept of what heaven is well even sand Paul was severely agnostic, but one one way in which the Christians differ from the Greeks the Greeks believed in the immortality of the soul We Christians believe with one section of the Jewish [people] In the resurrection of the body so in some sense, we will be there as continuing persons in Some with a new heaven and a new earth with all the good things that we’ve done will be Incorporated into the New Heaven and New Earth how to work out I don’t know because I think physically and morally and intellectually or at our peak at different stages in our life now It’ll work out I’ve got no idea but that’s that’s the the general outline, but respect you use you bullet You think about it as a kind of collection of individual souls in fact obviously billions and billions of individual souls with their own personality existing Galactic space that I think that’s a traditional well That’s certainly the traditional Christian view it’s the view that I accept and it’s also the view of some of the Jews Richard Dawkins well the answer to the question what’s gonna happen when when we die depends whether we’re very cremated or give our bodies to science I I know me I just kind [of] say this if you if you’re actually an agnostic And you keep aside the small portion of your brain for subsequent proof I mean you might get presented with that proof when you die The Brain is what we do our thinking with the brain is going to rot. That’s that’s that’s all there is to it I’m intrigued by the cardinals saying that the Christians believe you’re going to be resurrected in the body I mean that’s an astonishing that I idea, and I [I] don’t believe you really mean that all right and I [think] just just as I don’t believe you really mean that the wafer turns into the body of christ you must mean body in some rather special sense um Mr.. Dawkins, I don’t say things I don’t mean do you need I’ll tell you And I’ve just explained what the bodily resurrection means to the extent that I can understand it [I] certainly believe that when the words of consecration uttered that they become the body and blood of Christ now I Had a little kid came up to me when that was explained and say can I have a look in the chalice the seabirds [turned] to blood And of course it hasn’t we we don’t believe that It’s naughty Against reason, I believe it because I believe the man who told us that was also the son of God He says this is my body. This is my blood and I’d much prefer to listen to him and take his word than yours But other but other Christian denominations are quite. Happy to take that as a symbolic metaphorical meaning Catholics take it as a literal meaning and I take it I’m trying to be charitable by trying to suggest that it’s that same sense in which you say that the body is Resurrected because the body is certainly not resurrected in terms of the cell the protoplasm the proteins the DNa that doesn’t happen anymore than the wafer turns into into that you’re you’re right when you said [that] the That to the child so you do not mean that the wafer turns into the body in any sense in which Normal English language usage would Would understand you made it in some other sense and [I] take it It’s that same sense that the body is resurrected Well can I can I ask you whether you do mean it in a metaphorical sense of the same way you believe I don’t know I don’t reaches. I don’t I follow it I understand it according to a system of metaphysics was spelled out by the Greeks before christ came in which we’ve adopted and that is there’s a substance which is the core of A being and it is revealed to us to what are called accidents now I believe [that] the core of the bane becomes the The bread becomes the body and blood of Christ Eve continues to look exactly as it was We believe that in the Catholic is now. I know you’re a cultural anglican And we can’t blame me. I’m also a rationalist I mean, I mean I I use English is my native language the wafer does not become the body of anybody Okay in the English language. No, I think we resolved that We both will do you both disagree on this point rather substantially? Let’s go to our next question which is from Michael matty Um is it okay to tell a child that God doesn’t exist Richard Dawkins I Think it’s okay to tell a child the truth what I but I would prefer to Encourage a child to make up her own mind and to think about The evidence and to believe things when there is evidence what I think is not Okay What I think is deeply immoral is to tell a child that when she dies if she’s not good She’s going to go to hell that seems to me to be mental child abuse and an utter disgrace I remember when I was in England. We were preparing some young English boys [there] from Vera preparing them for can I thank you preparing them for first communion and they were very patriotic young lads and one of them announced very breezily to me that he didn’t believe in Hill and I mean certainly the idea of any child being sent to hell. I agree that that is Grotesque, and That’s that’s not the Christian. God, but anyhow this this can I said to cure. This kid I said simply um Hitler Do you think hitler might be in hell? Started the second world war caused the death of 50 million What would you prefer a system where hitler got away with it for free? Anyhow the Lil kid was quite patriotic Anita hmM. You realized hill was in with a chance If Hitler was going together what have what about a system where he was simply obliterated and didn’t exist anymore? Well if we were to go away with too much as [far] as I’m concerned So so you actually in what prefer the idea of hell is a place of punishment for but to who? Where do you draw the line to unbelievers go to no? No no the only people well one. I hope nobody’s in hell We catholics generally believed that there there is a hill. I hope nobody’s there. I certainly believe in a place of purification I Think it’ll be like getting up in the morning And you throw the curtains back the light is just too much God’s light would be too much for us, but I believe On behalf of the innocent victims in history that the scales of justice should work out, and if they don’t Life is radically unjust the law of the jungle prevails, okay? well It’s going to go to our next question which we can respond to some of these issues Through that it’s a video question comes Nick Walsh in ningun, New South Wales How can there be a compassionate God who is all powerful and has created us yet? We suffer Why create such a world in the first place? Richard Dawkins you can reflect on that and the previous question well It’s hardly my business to say um how could a compassion that God like that exist Darwin himself? Said it was impossible for him to believe in A God who was capable of creating such suffering he actually was talking about suffering in the animal Kingdom Do you assume that suffering is a natural part of the human condition? It’s a natural part of the of the living condition. It’s a natural part of Darwinian natural selection which is one of the reasons why I was so keen to Just to say that I didn’t want to live by Darwinian principles There is massive amount of suffering in the natural world A huge amount of suffering and it seems to me that’s an almost inevitable consequence of Darwinian natural selection I’m more interested however in what’s true than in what I would like to be true it would be very nice if they were no suffering in the world it would be very nice if There were a sort of natural scale of justice as the cardinal was saying but I’m more interested in in What’s true? So it’s not the business of an atheist to justify the ways of God to man it is the business of a cardinal, okay? Let’s go to the cardinal The question was how can there be a compassionate? God is all powerful and has created us and yet we suffer Why create such a world in the first place? I think that it’s probably the hardest question for us to answer you struggle with it. Yes if I get [a] chance to say To ask a question when I die, I think I lost a good God why is there so much suffering? That’s a problem for us. I think the greater problem for them, and they’ll [come] back to the question because it’s a very good one That’s at the heart of what we’re about. I think it’s a much greater problem for the atheist to explain Why there is Goodness and truth and beauty? our problem is to cope with suffering now one of the One [of] the unique, I think [it] will certainly special features of Christian teaching is the value of redemptive suffering and That is the significance of Christ’s suffering with us and dying on the cross and that helps that helps people My first easter after I was [a] priest was in the hills in italy very Sad village all the men were away in Germany or switzerland getting big money home only for three weeks a year and People were coming in coming to confession coming for consolation. I was even wetter behind the years than I am now I didn’t know what to [say] and Eventually I said to someone well look christ suffered to Christ had a bad run At Christ died on the cross and we believe that through his suffering Good will eventually triumph can I take it can I take it to a bigger level than that village to the holocaust? to genocide To famine if there is an omnipotent and all-powerful. God why does he let these things happen? That’s a very good question But if God is going to allow us to be good. He’s got to give us freedom There’s no, there’s no Alternative to that and but they chose to intervene at different times in history to save the jews when they’re going over the river Jordan I mean, there are many times when Apparently God is intervene in biblical times Why not now? Well that’s I think revelation is complete that’s a mighty question He helped probably through secondary causes for the Jews to escape and and continue It’s it’s interesting through these secondary causes Probably know people in history have been punished the way the germans were It’s a terrible It’s a terrible Mr.. Haley. There’d be a very strong argument saying the jews of Europe suffered worse than the Germans Yes that that’s That might that might be right certainly the suffering and both I mean jews there was no reason [why] law that they should suffer okay? I’m just gonna. We’re running out of time I’m gonna go to another question. [it’s] on a different subjects from Anita blue Jesus Priests preachers love thy neighbor as thyself So cardinal pell how can you be against giving our gain neighbors marriage rights? When equality and respect are the fundamental foundations of loving and spreading love? Well, it’s quite misleading and quite unfair to suggest that Christians say hate homosexuals Christians love everybody we We believe that marriage is between a man and a woman that it is for the Continuity of the Human Race we believe [that] men and women are made for one another spiritually psychologically physically We believe that men [and] a woman is a father with their children is far and away the best and most efficient and most economical system to bring up children and governments should support it for homosexual couple to have a union well and good, there’s no reason why [that] can’t be I just need to pose a Quick question on this we are running out of time. I mean do you believe [that] homosexuality? Since it’s not a question of choice is part of God’s natural order. Oh creations Messy That I think it’s the oriental carpet makers always leave a little flaw in their capital because I need God’s perfect but I gave it you suggesting that homosexuals are flawed human beings and not necessarily But what I am saying is I I don’t think homosexual activity is Simply the result of genetic makeup because we are free we can control our Instincts and like we’re heredity and environment a lot of this practice is Is Learned but whatever about it and we’ve got to try to support these These [people] show compassion The Catholic Church is a great record there. We look after my hiv sufferers than any other non-government Organization, but we don’t believe it’s possible to have Homosexual marriage I’m going to we’re almost out of time We’ve got time for one more question that both of our guests can answer from Catherine shed As an atheist profess Dawkins do you believe [that] believing in God for emotional support should be allowed even temporarily? Research has proven that people who believe in God has a better chance of surviving terminal illnesses such as cancer as well As I’m leaving longer when they go to church, so do you think that believing in God? It’s beneficial for our well-being even if God is an illusion It’s perfectly possible that as you say believing in God has benefit beneficial effects upon health It’s possible that you’re less likely to suffer a duodenal ulcer or something of that sort, but I do have to stress I mean that’s an utTerly trivial argument compared to the the truth of whether the God actually exists or not mean That’s a really big question it’s an important question one that the cardinal I would would agree on and if there is some Minor benefit to health one way or the other the evidence is not good by the way but even bending over backwards to suggest that the evidence is there that psychosomatic illness may be healed may be Alleviated somewhat by a belief in God Psychosomatic medicine is well known placebos work If if God is simply a placebo that’s fine, but I’m interested in whether he’s actually there Okay, got another final word that is so my It’s a question of truth Christian’s don’t present. God is like Santa Claus Something that myth. That’s useful for four children and believing in Garden being a Christian cuts both ways More people were killed for their Christian belief in the last century than any other century probably than all the other centuries combined They died on principle to be faithful to Jesus so we might get some benefits We don’t might and get ulcers. We might live a bit longer bed might have much more to do with our heredity but We follow Christ because we believe it’s the truth I I think it does bring a peace of mind that it does help us but sometimes it gets us into My life would be much simpler and much easier. If I didn’t have to go to bat for a number of Christian principles Have you ever regretted that you do? Sometimes I wonder seriously Okay that’s all we have time for tonight, [but] before we go let’s check the final results of tonight’s quanda vote with more than 20,000 of you voting we have a Seventy-six percent saying no religious belief does not make the world where this belief does not make the world a better place Please thank our special guests professor Richard Dawkins and Cardinal George pell and next week Next week on qa we return to worldly matters with attorney General Nicola Roxon the manager of opposition business Christopher Pyne International Human rights law Geoffrey Robertson Humanist Philosopher Ac grayling and middle East analyst Lydia Khalil until then good night

Otis Rodgers

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100 COMMENTS

  1. TheVeganAtheist Posted on March 16, 2017 at 11:02 pm

    Thumbs Up to all who donate and who share this video! You guys are awesome!
    https://youtu.be/bwkGUGadE0I

    Reply
  2. Johann Art Posted on June 19, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    47:49 For a moment I thought that Cardinal Pell was confessing the crime of child sexual abuse…

    Reply
  3. National Autistic Socialism Posted on June 19, 2019 at 10:00 pm

    What is wrong with the crowd? Are they all little kids? Why are they laughing at everything Dawkins says?

    Reply
  4. National Autistic Socialism Posted on June 19, 2019 at 10:06 pm

    George Pell was convicted of sexual misconduct against boys in 2017!

    Reply
  5. FalconX79 Posted on June 20, 2019 at 11:14 pm

    Religion is cancer and god is the cure that doesn't exist.

    Reply
  6. TheLimpbizpark Posted on June 21, 2019 at 6:30 pm

    I always denied evolution until 30:41 , one look at that and now I believe we definitely came from apes.

    Reply
  7. TheLimpbizpark Posted on June 21, 2019 at 6:30 pm

    30:41 look at that and tell me if you don't believe in evolution

    Reply
  8. Compromize Posted on June 21, 2019 at 11:28 pm

    cant wait to see the comments on this bad boy.

    Reply
  9. Pololdd Pool Posted on June 22, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    I cringe when pell talks

    Reply
  10. Digital Autism Posted on June 23, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    George Pell likes little boys.

    Reply
  11. Digital Autism Posted on June 23, 2019 at 1:11 pm

    People clapping and laughing with a pedophile. Disgusting man.

    Reply
  12. Patrick McAsey Posted on June 23, 2019 at 4:07 pm

    Seems strange to watch this, knowing what Pell has been convicted of, and that he's doing time (a long time) in a Melbourne jail. And, at the beginning of this debate they were discussing whether it is necessary to believe in God to be moral. I would say, on the basis of Pell, that you're more likely to be moral if you don't believe in God.

    Reply
  13. david boyd Posted on June 23, 2019 at 6:53 pm

    O,k, So he was up against the Cultist Jesuit Catholic church . Mr. Dawkins research is flawed based on some fake scenarios , Ok some evidence ,Giants skeletons found taken into custody by Smithsonian institute then disappeared ? What about vitrified forts in Scotland ,? Geologists to this day are baffled as to how these so called man made vitrified structures were created Ha Ha Ha , Myself and a few others know what these 200 odd structures over the world were used for , Do you?

    Reply
  14. LifeOfRy Posted on June 24, 2019 at 2:04 am

    51:15 the most intense zoom

    Reply
  15. Terkel Algevind Posted on June 24, 2019 at 11:10 am

    Atheists is unknowing religious fanatics… At least muslims know they are religious…

    Reply
  16. JasonXavier89 Posted on June 24, 2019 at 6:15 pm

    Pay extra attention around the 30 – 34 minute mark.

    George Pell – Adam and Eve is a RELIGIOUS story, told for RELIGIOUS purposes.

    ie; not real

    Reply
  17. J.C able able Posted on June 25, 2019 at 11:19 am

    Dawkins vs Shapiro

    Reply
  18. Guy Drori Posted on June 26, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    Every time I see a debate between a non-religious person and a religious person, seems like the religious person is cornered and remains speechless, eventually babbling nonesense.
    (And wasn't George Pell blamed for child abuse? Hypocritical much?????!!!!!)

    Reply
  19. Brian Battles Posted on June 27, 2019 at 1:09 am

    The Eminent Cardinal InJailForFuckingChildren

    Reply
  20. Mickey Villadsen Posted on June 27, 2019 at 3:53 pm

    Hahaha christianity didn’t give women any Rights it actually took the Rights from women in the Nordic culture at the end of the viking age

    Reply
  21. Lalcha Suantak Posted on June 27, 2019 at 10:34 pm

    Lets assume God came from nothing..so universe came from nothing.. thats the prove of unvrse came from nothing

    Reply
  22. Lalcha Suantak Posted on June 27, 2019 at 10:42 pm

    Lets assume god exist.. god could have forgiven satan.. if he is kind enough why didnt he forgive … Let both of them concilate and make peace… Lets live freely and peacefully without enimity between one or to person

    Reply
  23. dibya deori Posted on June 28, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    india never had slavery and india never had Christianity. because there is in need of morality religion exist.

    Reply
  24. J Warthen Posted on June 28, 2019 at 9:29 pm

    Anyone else think the moderator looks like a fatter Dr. Drew?

    Reply
  25. Jingleschmiede Posted on June 29, 2019 at 2:45 am

    In a few years we will have very realistic computer games. We could live in one and not even notice. Can someone prove we are not ? What if god is actually a bunch of highly developed aliens, who somehow managed to visit us 6000 years ago, found a bunch of wild idiots and decided, without interfering too much, to give us some lead to develope in form of some writings. It's more plausible than some magic ghost with infinite intelligence. Nobody can proof, that there wasn't any aliens, because we're simply too stupid. Maybe we can sometime with the help of artificial intelligence, that can evolve much fast than we can. The problem with religion is, that it is interpretated by humans.

    Reply
  26. Space-Time - Posted on June 29, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    Richard Dawkins is right!

    Reply
  27. Mister Tibbs Posted on June 30, 2019 at 3:35 am

    thank you for a beautiful world god……….

    Reply
  28. 33 hustler Posted on June 30, 2019 at 10:56 am

    the fucking pedophile talks about doing good and being a pure and beautiful human being hahahaha i fucking cant :DDD

    Reply
  29. 33 hustler Posted on June 30, 2019 at 11:06 am

    47:49 IM DEAD HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT WAS A CONFESSION HAHAHHA I CANT

    Reply
  30. Ernest Lebedev Posted on June 30, 2019 at 2:28 pm

    George Pell cannot be a Christian in his spirit. I cannot feel anything even close to New Testament in his speech. My opinion, of course, but if I were a Christian I would be totally shamed having such a representative…

    Reply
  31. Martin Stu Posted on July 1, 2019 at 10:52 am

    Cardinal George Pell – a convicted child sex offender. good job christians. why are you such degenerates?

    Reply
  32. Dian Light Beam Posted on July 1, 2019 at 10:44 pm

    Adam and Eve existed

    Reply
  33. Leonard Dan Johnson Posted on July 2, 2019 at 5:20 am

    SCIENCE has always known the truth of GODS creation. Here's how. By using the maths concept of probabilities we reveal the truth: If you threw one million dices what is the chance of getting one side absolute? The answer is NEVER. Now lets take a step further and show how the atoms of the periodic table more than meets this analogy by a trillion country miles! For each kind of the 110 atoms on the periodic table they exist in the universe to the amount of 10 to the power of a trillion or one followed by one trillion zeroes (conservative estimate). However, the extremely amazing facts for each kind of the 110 atoms (lets take Carbon for example) is that they are ABSOLUTELY identical by their physical structure and their properties, and, there's 10 to the power of one trillion of each kind of the 110 atoms in the universe! These facts equally apply to all the 110 atoms on the periodic table! Now using the concept of probabilities the chance the atoms were produced by any random acts or chance events is Absolute ZERO! Accordingly, the atoms COULD ONLY BE IN EXISTENCE BY BEING MADE. This is the truth of GODS creation.

    Reply
  34. Xolani Mathaba Posted on July 3, 2019 at 7:34 am

    I’m athiest too and to be honest
    Let’s just keep ignoring the obvious and create more theories that can’t be proven with 10 more theories that have terms you can’t understand

    Lol

    Reply
  35. TGN Epic Posted on July 3, 2019 at 9:25 pm

    I'm pretty sure the majority of the audience is some degree of disabled; and i dont mean that in a malicious way but moreso of an explanation as to why they're thought process as a whole was incoherent and irrationally applauding Pell's arguments. That or they may also be getting paid to start controversy.

    Reply
  36. Unknown User Posted on July 4, 2019 at 6:07 pm

    After a LONG time
    Of researching. There is the only one true religion and there is only ONE God.

    Atheists fail to bring people away from religion as they can’t answer certain things.

    That ALLAH (SWT) can explain and bring the masses towards his path. ALLAHHHHHHHU AKBARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
  37. Messer Franz Posted on July 5, 2019 at 12:12 pm

    Make up your mind Richard Dawkins. I follow u for a while. First u say
    God is not there, then u say there is A God, then u say I could be
    wrong, then you say I dont know. Then u say could it be, then u say i
    dont know,… Holy crap man. Make up ur mind!

    Reply
  38. MusicInfected Posted on July 5, 2019 at 4:16 pm

    So…a pedophile, a rapist and a priest walk into a bar and orders a drink

    Reply
  39. Jimmy Moonshine Posted on July 7, 2019 at 12:44 am

    The old testament is filled with perversion, any religion that has a verse about sleeping with your father and raping young teenage girls to protect two angels of God, is a book everyone should toss in the fire. Moses had auditory hallucinations along with many others in the Bible. It's a real mental disorder today as it was back then…

    Reply
  40. Kevin Healey Posted on July 7, 2019 at 3:53 pm

    See a problem with religion is in general the clergy will very often try to turn their sheep into neurotics.

    Reply
  41. Lukas Aurelius Posted on July 7, 2019 at 3:55 pm

    My Answer to Atheists:
    Part 1: You can't say "God doesn't exist."

    1. Define what you mean by "God."
    a. God is not a member of any category of things, persons, etc.
    b. God is not just another person you can find. There are no Olympian gods.
    c. God is the self-sufficient action of being-in-itself. He is "the subsistent act of Being Itself" (Bishop Robert Barron).
    d. If God did not want to be known, He could have avoided our notice, but He has chosen to make us aware of Him.

    2. You can't just ask me to point to anything inside our experience and say "God did that," as if to give evidence.
    a. God is outside of our experience.
    b. We are inside His experience.
    c. Nothing happens that He does not allow, or take into account, in his plans.
    d. He "did" the physical laws that made the universe, and all of the laws of nature that made life possible.

    3. Science is not great enough to be able to discover God, or to disprove Him.
    a. Science can only look at empirical objects that can be observed with our natural or artificial senses.
    b. You can't take out your own brain and look at it quivering in your hand, i.e., you cannot see "seeing" with your own eyes.
    c. Science requires reasonable conjecture to be able to build knowledge.
    d. Reason insists that the "God hypothesis" is a very likely explanation.

    4. Atheists fail to seize upon the very largest questions.
    a. Where did the universe come from?
    b. Why is there something, rather than nothing?
    c. Why are you here? Or why are there any intelligent beings possible at all?
    d. Why do you think you feel that some actions are good and moral, but some are not and should be forbidden?

    5. If you can be satisfied with saying, "I don't know the answers to the really big questions," then simply be agnostic, and don't presume to say that you "know" that there "does not exist" something you can never prove or disprove.
    a. If there is anything likely to be beyond our understanding, surely it would be the God who created and sustains the whole Cosmos and everything in it.
    b. The mere fact that you feel you must debate Him shows that He desires to call all conscious beings to Himself.
    c. "Something from nothing" is not a better answer than "creation by God."
    d. It is highly unlikely that science will ever be able to explain, let alone try to manipulate, how the universe's initial physical constants were chosen and fixed.

    Part 2: What, or Who, is God?

    Omnipresent – not limited in location, because for there to be any location it must be sustained by non-contingent being-in-itself.

    Omnipotent – not limited in power, because it is obvious that the Cosmos exists, and that it has both a beginning and an end, as do all living beings.

    Omniscient – knows all that can be known, because He has allowed for and observed every contingency, and has designs for every possibility in the future.

    Supremely Intelligent – has a coherent intention, with an aim, plans, methods and intermediate goals, and knows how to take action to achieve them, from concept to success.

    Perfectly Loving – understands the needs of other beings, because He takes special interest in bringing forth life and intellect, and shaping it into moral creatures.

    Perfectly Truthful – He communicates only the Truth, because deceiving his creatures would only warp their development and prevent their further growth in morality.

    Giving Freedom – unlimited in his choices of action, He then allows his creatures to choose what they think is best for their own survival, growth and development.

    Teaching Wisdom – understanding of practical pursuits, He guides us to follow aims that will lead us to live properly and seek fulfillment in society and knowledge.

    Part 3: So what else did you want?

    1. God does not force you to obey, but doing so helps your cause.
    2. God gives you a magnificent intellect.
    3. God let's you grow in knowledge and power.
    4. God has given you the best teachers, and the best examples to follow.
    5. You can refine your own character.
    6. The gates of Heaven are ajar for you to open.
    7. You can design and build your own paradise, any way you want it.
    8. God will trust you, if you love Him.
    9. You can have everything you need.
    10. You need never to be lonely.
    11. You can live as long as you want.
    12. God asks only for your gratitude, and that you will always love others.

    Do you have any problem with that?

    www.emunahechad.blogspot.com

    Reply
  42. cdq 1325 Posted on July 7, 2019 at 5:20 pm

    I live in a group home with 13 guys most of them aren't believers in God their also not Atheist either they just live happily each day it's totally amazing to me

    Reply
  43. cdq 1325 Posted on July 7, 2019 at 5:24 pm

    My purpose is having a roof over my head
    Good food to eat
    And clean clothes to wear…

    Reply
  44. Mr. Gregory Posted on July 8, 2019 at 2:15 am

    Every Organization has bad apples and this is an example of that. Christianity is still the Majority Religion in our World today. Get over it !!!

    Reply
  45. naveen batra Posted on July 8, 2019 at 9:43 am

    Allah hu akbar we r the greatest we will spread the islam allah hu akbar all hu akbar hail prophet muhamad pbuh yahi yahi e lolo popo

    Reply
  46. George Washington Posted on July 10, 2019 at 7:15 am

    Dawkins is the atheist savior

    Reply
  47. Jamie V Posted on July 10, 2019 at 9:11 am

    I’d rather get molested by 9999 atheists than that ignorant old fggot priest

    Reply
  48. Jamie V Posted on July 10, 2019 at 9:15 am

    Nice to see Dawkins on a break since that Priest was the dumbest cnt and makes Australians looks bad if u ask me religion makes humanity look bad as a whole

    Reply
  49. Jamie V Posted on July 10, 2019 at 9:29 am

    Since to see the christians brought there best 😂😂😂😂😂(I’m saying this from an atheist perspective)

    Reply
  50. Rubencho Powers Posted on July 11, 2019 at 7:31 pm

    I find it truly disgusting that these child-fuckers get TV-time… (charched with pedophilia)… ajajaj

    Reply
  51. Shivani Posted on July 11, 2019 at 9:30 pm

    We need more Richard Dawkins than Christians in society. At least Dawkins doesn't tell people that they're going to hell for not being atheists.

    Reply
  52. joseph jackson Posted on July 12, 2019 at 3:43 am

    True Christianity isn't primarily about having good morals, it's about Jesus Christ saving the world from sin. Good morals only come from that

    Reply
  53. joseph jackson Posted on July 12, 2019 at 3:49 am

    I see Richard stumbling over himself here, giving us his own assumptions as truth and going from there. These assumptions are not clearly defined, and it gives me a lot of distrust to what Darwin says

    Reply
  54. Leonard Dan Johnson Posted on July 12, 2019 at 6:46 am

    Catholicism is a false religion and not Christianity either.

    Reply
  55. Alisha Watts Posted on July 13, 2019 at 8:46 am

    And who in this debate turned out to be a child molester lol

    Reply
  56. Jayakiran Posted on July 14, 2019 at 11:22 am

    @ George Pell AC (born 8 June 1941) is an Australian prelate of the Catholic Church and convicted child sex offender. 47:47

    Reply
  57. FAT cat Posted on July 16, 2019 at 1:09 pm

    Christian: we probably descended from Neanderthals

    Evolutionary biologist: huh?

    Christian: yeah, probably

    Everyone except the audience: ._.

    Reply
  58. DannyBoy777777 Posted on July 16, 2019 at 3:27 pm

    Rename this Dawkins versus Paedophile Cardinal

    Reply
  59. William Abdy Posted on July 16, 2019 at 5:05 pm

    Pell’s analogies, sentences, explanations and ideas are all unintelligible. He quite clearly is a confused man, who is completely nescient on a vast majority of topics.

    Reply
  60. Michael Magdy Posted on July 17, 2019 at 11:07 pm

    Can anyone explain what Pell meant when he said I think you're a loose lady? English isn't my first language and I've no idea.

    Reply
  61. Leet Baffometi Posted on July 18, 2019 at 11:23 am

    There is no God. Fucking Christians!

    Reply
  62. FeedMyADCplease Posted on July 18, 2019 at 10:33 pm

    47:45 i almost died there

    Reply
  63. FeedMyADCplease Posted on July 18, 2019 at 10:46 pm

    right at the end he turned his back to god unfortunately god doesent love him anymore

    Reply
  64. jltrem Posted on July 20, 2019 at 11:29 pm

    And Pell now sits in a Melbourne prison. Prof. Dawkins, I'd like to buy you a drink.

    Reply
  65. jltrem Posted on July 21, 2019 at 12:42 am

    35:36– Pell: "There are animal souls." I spent 8 years in Catholic parochial school. Was DEFINITELY taught that animals have no souls, only human beings . Pell doesn't even know his own doctrine.

    Reply
  66. DUTCH 10469 Posted on July 21, 2019 at 2:58 am

    Looking back at this the young boy comment is telling——

    Reply
  67. Alfonso Frijio Posted on July 21, 2019 at 9:58 pm

    21:00 – 26:00 Why not give credit to the old Greek view that there is no starting point? Eternity, an option for the atheist, is far more commonsensical.

    Reply
  68. Naveen Kumar Posted on July 22, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    such an annoying crowd you got there. who organised the show? the crowd is so dumb.

    Reply
  69. Consoulking Posted on July 22, 2019 at 6:26 pm

    George Pell is now in PRISON for 6 years as a CHILD SEX OFFENDER lmaooooooooo the holiest man is the sneakiest man

    Reply
  70. CHRIS STARKILLER Posted on July 24, 2019 at 1:03 am

    Answer me this Cardinal creepy, Where did GOD come from? nowhere? nothing?

    Reply
  71. swapnil sakpal Posted on July 24, 2019 at 10:44 am

    Dawkins is the winner…in this debate

    Reply
  72. Lucas L Posted on July 24, 2019 at 8:21 pm

    brilliant mind vs…whatever this criminal is

    Reply
  73. The Quiet Room Posted on July 25, 2019 at 8:23 am

    Such low blows from the cardinal

    Reply
  74. 10,000 Subs For Brownies Posted on July 25, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    Atheism decays civilization. Glory to God! ❤️ Proud to be a believer in Jesus Christ!!!

    Reply
  75. Tim Elliott Posted on July 27, 2019 at 12:56 am

    George Pell is a convicted pedophile.

    Reply
  76. Elida Moan Posted on July 27, 2019 at 1:08 am

    I am an athiest and i really wanna slap the shit out of that first lady

    Reply
  77. Elida Moan Posted on July 27, 2019 at 1:21 am

    Everyone exept darkwin is annoying af. I would not survive in this room with these delutional nazi christians

    Reply
  78. Elida Moan Posted on July 27, 2019 at 1:23 am

    I have so much respect for darkwin. Everyone was against him and he still stayed professional and calm

    Reply
  79. infinity house Posted on July 27, 2019 at 11:10 pm

    godisimaginary.com

    Reply
  80. T Razz Posted on July 28, 2019 at 8:15 am

    Title should read Atheist versus Pedophile Theist.

    Reply
  81. Silver Wolf Posted on July 28, 2019 at 8:38 am

    https://youtu.be/3P0COcDu8zg
    Learn the Luciferian Demonic Religions they dont want you to know about🔼

    Reply
  82. מושטכת Posted on July 29, 2019 at 12:46 am

    Cardinals need love too.

    Reply
  83. Lester Stein Posted on July 30, 2019 at 9:54 am

    this is so much more enjoyable in 2019, when science has proved that living, organic matter can in fact emerge from nothing but dirt and amino acids.
    Science 1
    Religion 0

    Reply
  84. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:22 pm

    I highly acknowledge Richard's accusations of wrongful religions, specially focusing on Christianity, Islam and Judaism. His constant efforts will surely make a great contribution to the elimination of the problems of many superstitions and in religions in the world.

    However, I worry greatly about seeing only the physical world as a whole, neglecting the real God, and all humanity falling into materialism. Not all problems are solved by science, and man is never just a physical being.

    God certainly exists. However, humanity has been mistakenly defined the God as a center of specific race, human, or earth. If humanity realizes the whole real-truth, we will know the real god. At this time, we will no longer have to worship God and need religion for mankind.

    I already realized such a complete real-truth. Invite and listen to me. OnCharm Lee (Author of the book “Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process”)

    Reply
  85. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:23 pm

    [The danger of human civilization only pursuing the physical world]

    Religion (or faith) never pursues the ultimate truth. Science also does not deal with the world of truth that is ever intangibly right but just deals with the temporal and always changing physical world.

    I am very worried about the blind believers who are absorbed in the wrong God, but feel more fear and dreadfulness in ignorance and bravery of those who continue tenaciously stirring up people, firmly believing that there is never God. The misuse of intelligence by man's reckless pride will lead the whole human race to the path of complete destruction.

    The non-scientific and superstitious elements and falling-to-power and deceiving people of religions are causing serious social problems and should be resolved immediately. But in the distant future of mankind, atheism and materialism will bring greater danger than false theism to humanity.

    God certainly exist and is required to be understood correctly. The recent controversy between theism, centered on Christianity, and atheism, centered on science materialism, which is taking place in the West, is going very wrong and it is very dangerous.

    In the distant future when mankind realizes the whole truth, it will not need religion to worship God.Humans will not sin, but will be thankful, peaceful and free.

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the book “Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process”)

    Reply
  86. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:24 pm

    [God Certainly Exists. But the Gods that Mankind Has Established so Far are False Gods.]

    The physical world, as we always feel and understand, is passive except for rules that are created by physical properties or conditions, and is finite, imperfect, always changing and sometimes nonexisting. Therefore, it is certain that the physical world is a secondary world existed temporarily by something.

    There is a world of truth that does not change forever even if there is no physical world. Truths exist even though you and me, human, earth, or universe does not exist. Secondary beings always think the prerequisite world for their existence as right and permanent. This world corresponds to the world of God.

    According to the above, God is primarily existing without death and always appears right in the physical world. And if God is the most primordial being that existed without physical world, he must not be constrained by physical space and time, and does not need to think or act. He must exist completely by himself and absolutely self-sufficiently, without requiring or relying on anything.

    He must be absolutely free freedom without any responsibility or obligation, and he has no reason to create a physical world, to be constrained by physical space and time. Really he cannot be a personal being to hear payers, to monitor or judge any secondaries. The physical world comes from God but it is not a world that God must deliberately create.

    Life is the intermediate existence. The body in human beings and life is also temporary things that come from the physical world and sometime disappear, and the spirit in them becomes a world of communicating with God by realizing the truth corresponding to the content of God. Therefore, in life, spirit is the master.

    If the spirit (or soul) is big (or great), the life becomes widely and long lived. When life realize the full of truth through life, he loses agony and suffering as well as death, he goes closer to God and becomes to live in paradise or heaven.

    If he enlightens the whole of the physical world, the God-world of truth, and the world of life with body and spirit, all together without any contradiction, I call this person as a person who transcends the physical world and death, and was liberated from everything.

    Do not privatize God. Do not rationalize the mysterious things that happen in the physical world to God's careful attention. Never be trapped in the darkness of an extremely temporary and uncertain physical world.

    Most religions have superstitious elements and produce actually many side-effects. But materialism that believe that the physical world is all is more dangerous. Scientific material civilization will drive humankind into a closed world. Human is a spiritual being to develop his soul.

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the Book "Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process")

    Reply
  87. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:25 pm

    God certainly exists. But mankind, including all religions, has never known God correctly. Materialism and scientific material civilization will lead to destruction of mankind. If mankind knows all truths correctly, it will be able to know God rightly and religion will not be necessary. Don’t privatize God. God doesn’t want any prayer and faith from you. I tell people to know truth and God correctly.

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the book “Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process”)

    Reply
  88. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:26 pm

    [What is your mental index (SQ, Soul Quotient)?]

    I have developed a table that measures individual’s mental level according to the degree to which he has realized real-truth. There are 150 steps in the table, ranging from -500 to +1000 depending on how much you have developed your soul based on your intelligence, realizing the real truth.

    Those who are trapped in the physical world and live mainly in the flesh belong to the scope of –500 ~ +500, (Those who are an eye-opening blind person who seeks only what is visible are less than 300 points out of 1000 points) and those who do the real-truth and live mentally belong to +500 ~ +1000.

    Another separate table gives the examples of the well-known persons’ SQs in human history. Are not you curious about how much your SQ is?

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the book “Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process”)

    Reply
  89. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:45 pm

    [Evolution and God]

    In inanimate objects, evolution cannot be said. In the world of pure matter, only the physical properties of matter and the surrounding physical conditions cause changes.

    In living things, evolution can be said to be an adaptation to a changing environment, that is, natural selection and survival of the fittest, and a change in the desired direction by activity in more intelligent life will through recognition and knowledge. But those evolutions also cannot eventually escape the changes of nature – either individually or in the whole of life. In other words, in any life, evolution cannot overcome nature and continue to develop in the direction desired.

    However, even if living things adapt to nature or evolve on their own, it cannot be assured that there is no God. It is because God may have considered adaptation or evolution to be possible within some bounds. Even if life is given free-will, such free-will can be exercised within the scope of the given environment.

    I believe that the energy that forms the universe arises from God, and that this energy forms the basis of the physical world, and that changes in the physical world take place by physical conditions. So I think I can say that God affects the whole change of nature.

    But I believe that God never creates or manages the universe with will. (I think God is never a personal being.) And I think that in life, by knowledge and will, evolution can be made somewhat more actively in the desired direction, but eventually the evolution will depend on the change of nature.

    So my conclusion is that evolution never rejects or denies the existence of God. However, it is quite sure that God did not create or design finely, and is not manipulating, interfering, or judging the universe.

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the Book "Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process")

    Reply
  90. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 1, 2019 at 11:49 pm

    Christians are handicapped in reasoning, being trapped in the Bible, and atheists are blind in the spiritual (or truth) world, being locked in the physical world. Their debate runs endlessly in parallel.

    Reply
  91. OnCharm Lee Posted on August 2, 2019 at 12:11 am

    [What You Need to Understand for Your Ultimate Truth]

    You need to know exactly the followings: 1) the physical world that we feel as the five senses is finite, incomplete, always changing, temporarily existing, very passive and relative, and so secondary or posterior. 2) There certainly is a prior world of intangible reasons (eg. mathematical and philosophical logics) that transcends these temporary physical worlds, whose properties are diametrically opposed to them and are always right to the secondary beings. 3) Life is an intermediate being between these two worlds, whose body interacts with the physical world and spirit interacts with the reason world, while the soul leads the body, and thus the greater the soul, the more active in spirit and the larger (more spacious and longer) lived.

    So you have to fully understand the worlds of material, life and reason/truth, comprehending the following things in detail: what are the properties of material or matter? What are the laws of physics and how are the universal constants determined? Why do the changing laws of physics contain unchanging reason/truth? How is different between fact, realization and reason/truth? What is life different from substance? In detail in life, how is thought possible? what is consciousness and intelligence? what is soul, spirit and mind, and how are they different? what are desire, will and activeness, how do they occur and work? what is virtue/goodness, beauty and truth, and what are the relationships between them? why does truth never change and appear as absolutely right anywhere anytime in the physical world, and why are goodness and beauty always relative? why do people say that the world of truth is the world of God, that God appears everywhere alive without death, and that life is large and widely alive if it knows a lot of truth? what are the basic attributes and the ultimate state of ethics and morality, and why the life need them? and what are sin and responsibility in willing life?

    I realized all of them as a whole without any gap and contradiction, and I live now only freely and peacefully without any desire, fear, worry, doubt or pride.

    OnCharm Lee (Author of the book “Humans, God, and Truth – Human Life is the Awakening Process”)

    Reply
  92. djf750 Posted on August 2, 2019 at 3:55 am

    I wonder if Pell has access to youtube in prison

    Reply
  93. Pitamah Bhism Posted on August 2, 2019 at 9:03 am

    CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM BOTH ARE MAN MADE CULTS THAT SURVIVE THROUGH INSTILLING FEAR AND REQUIRES BLIND FAITH.
    IF ANYONE WISHES TO DIFFER I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO DEBATE OR DISCUSS AND PROVE MY CLAIM RIGHT HERE.

    Reply
  94. PorhHub Posted on August 5, 2019 at 6:00 am

    47:47 you’d never know

    Reply
  95. Sam Hopper Posted on August 6, 2019 at 11:49 am

    Think about it. Hell would be full of people of don't believe in god or reject him and heaven would be full of paedophile priests and murderers who turned to Jesus at the last moment

    Reply
  96. Malcolm Vladisclav Posted on August 7, 2019 at 5:12 am

    This Cardinal is annoying.

    Reply
  97. Jeremy SB Posted on August 7, 2019 at 1:41 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtHOmforqxk – The only think you need to see relating to George Pell…

    Reply
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